The condensate line was run from the pump through 39 feet of 1/2′ clear flexible “fish tank” tubing up into the exposed joist area in the utility room and over to the laundry drain pipe. He handled the issue with efficiency...", "OMG, customer service was awesome!!!!! © 2021 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. I wish someone had mentioned this to me 4 years ago but i can't undo the past. I've been giving this thread some thought recently, Limestone was mentioned above, can i buy something like the link below and add stones to the condensate pump reservoir to solve the problem (refilling as needed)? Q3: Is this item for one bag of small round balls of neutralizer, or multiple bags of angular rocks and pebbles?A3: This item is for one bag of small round balls of neutralizer, which is the newest, more advanced version of neutralizer made for Navien. Alan: With copper drains playing it safe with a neutralizer/buffer cartridge is probably the best, (unless you run a couple loads of laundry daily during cold weather.). The volume is low (relative to daily drain flows of grey & black water) and of things go down the drain that are at least as acidic as natural gas or propane condensate. Just guessing but about 40 ounces, if it is full of rocks 15 or 20 ounces. Brass/bronze and other alloys of copper will have the same issues when chronically exposed to condensate. The copper tubing has now corroded away and the drain is now hanging free dripping on the floor behind the washing machine. How to make a condensate neutralizer box. This is very interesting, i had a high efficiency natural gas furnace installed 4 years ago, its condensate is going into a laundry tub that has copper drain pipes (and no stack so it drains slowly). 3. 2) it is a 1966 house and has galvanized drain pipes and cast iron sewer pipes, not more modern plastic, so I do not think they should have drained into those pipes where the acid could corrode them. As of Nov. 2019, Navien is still including outdated instructions which refer to angular rocks. I'm still considering the limestone in the condensate pump if i have no luck finding one easily in Canada. If you want to save some money, it is actually very easy to make your own condensate neutralizer box. The NAVIEN, KD NAVIEN, ComfortFlow, Ready-Link, and NaviLink trademarks are the property of Navien America, Inc. and/or KyungDong Navien. Great resources Martin, thanks. If i were to go with limestone in the pump reservoir $6 instead of hunting for it is not a big outlay. You can buy the condensate acid neutralizer for $50.00 In a lot of places the crushed stone bed under every road, drive way or basement, is limestone especially if it … for why copper reacts with nitric and sulfuric acids. Only downside is that it isn't clear, so I just open it up annually and top up the limestone chips. It is a section of clear pipe filled with crushed limestone. This could be a concern though would it not be the other way around, the pump keep running dry? Interesting, i wish someone had mentioned this to me before... The thing is Dana I am very careful with my septic system. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. I made my own for about $15. I've seen installations like this where the water in the tube keeps draining back into the tank after the float switch in the pump tank shuts off the pump which causes the whole cycle to start up again and continue repeating until enough water has been removed, a bit at a time. Also, don't loop it around other utilities etc. One brand of condensate neutralizers is NeutraSafe. With some PVC, a 5 gallon painter’s bucket and some limestone or marble chips, you can do a really easy DIY version. Buy this refill to replace the limestone acid neutralizing agent in the GXXX001322 Condensate Neutralization Capsule. In the interim i can perhaps rerun the line to an upstairs sink which i think is cast iron till i can find a neutralizer. It neutralizes the acidic, corrosive condensation produced by your condensing propane or natural gas water heater or boiler. Insert new media into cartridge.5. Q2: How often should I replace the neutralizing media?A2: Once per year, using pH test strip paper or an electronic pH meter, check the pH level at the outlet of the neutralizer tank. You can buy the condensate acid neutralizer for $50.00. This replacement limestone neutralizing agent prevents damage to your drain pipes and sewers. Anything more reactive than gold will react with oxygen (silver tarnish, copper patina) and anything more reactive than copper will react with dilute acids and even water. In another, it looks like there is a small drain pipe inside the flue pipe leading out. I am concerned now that the contractor may have messed up bad enough that I worry about the galvanized laundry drain in the wall and about the cast iron sewer below the concrete floor. I don't care much about the life, its old anyways so if i reduce its life a few months its not a huge deal, 2. 4 )I live in Massachusetts where I am guessing they didn’t drain it outside because it could freeze in the winter. 1. It's strong enough to react over time with copper drains, but with iron, not so much. If you burn gas in a condensing furnace and have metal drain pipes you need a neutralizer. Empty old media into plastic trash bag and dispose.4. The drain end of the tubing was attached to a 6″ piece of copper tubing (3/8″ I think but I can’t tell now) and that was stuck into the laundry drain. I thought of that but the weight of the rock will probably not make this a problem. Bob Allison. Compatible with all models of condensate neutralizer cartridges: Navien, Noritz, Rheem, AO Smith, Rinnai, Weil-McLain, Rinnai. Now thats clever :) There is no simple answer. The pipe is clear so you can inspect it and replace it before all the limestone is dissolved. 1 Putting rocks in the pump makes the tank hold less water so without the rocks the pump comes on and empties the tank. 3) From what I have gathered online there may be an issue with there being enough of an air gap with the washer and condensate line both into the laundry drain. Remove and discard the old boiler and water heater. tube will hold a fair amount of water, and depending on how high the pump has to lift that water and the slope(s) of the tube run, your pump may be running a lot longer than needed, especially if there's no check valve at the pump outlet. It has now corroded and is leaking inside my basement. Turn on the combination boiler, and it should immediately start making hot water. How? The bag of angular rocks was a previous formulation that is discontinued. Unscrew cap from cartridge housing.3. Enter the Email address associated with your account, then click Go. abs acos acosh addcslashes addslashes aggregate aggregate_info aggregate_methods aggregate_methods_by_list aggregate_methods_by_regexp aggregate_properties aggregate_properties_by Maybe this was done somehow to keep it warm in the winter to keep it from freezing. Do I need to hire someone to run a camera to inspect my main line? Condensate from a high-efficiency furnace. I actually don't need it by Christmas day, as I will be spending Christmas with my family and having...", "An item was recently out of stock that I had ordered. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. With drains down stream of a dilution point such as the laundry sink hardly matter what the material is, since in a typical applications there is many times greater flow of the washer outflow as there would be from a condenting natural gas or propane burner mixing in with it. Use a condensate pump to drain away the excess condensation. https://www.lowes.ca/stone-gravel-rock/earthessentials-by-quikrete-18kg-limestone-screenings_g1550663.html, This links has the following MSDS which has calcium carbonate and magnesium oxide and quartz So now the pump runs twice as often and wears out sooner. 2 The acid keep dissolving the rocks at some point a rock will be small enough to enter the pump and get jammed and stop the pump. In a lot of places the crushed stone bed under every road, drive way or basement, is limestone especially if it is snow white. Disable operation of water heater.2. At what pH is water going to start breaking down copper pipe? How concerned should i be, being near Toronto Ontario with a 99% design temp load of about 25K? The Navien GXXX001323 refill media is compatible with the following heaters: Most condensing tankless water heatersNPE-S tankless water heater series including NPE-180S, NPE-210S, NPE-240SNPE-A tankless water heater series including NPE-180A, NPE-210A, NPE-240ANCB and NCB-E Combi-Boiler series including NCB-150, NCB-180, NCB-210 and NCB-240; NCB-150E, NCB-180E, NCB-210E and NCB-240ENFC Fire Tube Combi-boilers (NFC-175, NFC-200)NHB Heating Boilers including NHB-55, NHB-80, NHB-110 and NHB-150NR series including NR-180, NR-210 and NR-240; NR-180A, NR-210A and NR-240ANP series NP-180A, NP-210A, NP-240ACH-ASME Combi-Boiler series including CH-180-ASME, CH-210-ASME and CH-240-ASMECH-ASME Combi-Boiler series including CH-180-ASME, CH-210-ASME and CH-240-ASMEAny other condensate-producing heater by brands such as Noritz, Rinnai, Marey, Takagi, AO Smith, State, Reliance, Bosch, Eccotemp, Rheem, etc. I used some 2" abs pipes installed a union so I could open it up to inspect and fill, and put a hose barb on each end. Replace the neutralizing media when the pH level drops below the minimum level specified by the local water authority. Can I drain my furnace's condensate line into the sealed sump pit? 39' of 1/2" id. This replacement limestone neutralizing agent prevents damage to your drain pipes and sewers. I am looking into installing a neutralizer, maybe a homemade one. https://www.rona.ca/en/stone-crushed-stone-3-4-in-05335020, Alan The run was secured to pipes and things by looping it around objects and with tape. The market has responded by creating an assortment of "condensate neutralizers" like the units Neutra-Safe sells — basically, acid-resistant plastic tubes filled with a mineral, typically limestone (calcium carbonate), that reacts with the nitrates in the effluent flowing through the tube and reduces the fluid's acidity to milder levels. It probably started leaking 3-5 years ago but I always just thought it was the washer leaking. Do I need to open the plaster wall and check the laundry drain? I am also looking into a way to pipe it so it dumps outside but has a bypass (automatic with no moving parts) to the drain if the outside drain freezes. Here are our instructions:1. We'll email you a link to a page where you can easily create a new password. As a point of reference, it took 23 years for the 5" piece of copper tubing that connected to the vinyl tube led into my drain to completely be eaten away. For a photo click on the link in Martin’s reply. In a couple cases, it looks like there is a separate 1/2 or 3/4 PVC pipe coming out of the wall. A month or 10,000 years. • Prevents acidic condensate from corroding sewer systems and drains • Recommended for use with all types of propane and natural gas appliances, Q1: How many bags of this refill media are needed to replace all the contents of the Condensate Neutralizer Capsule/Cartridge?A1: One bag. If a gravity drain is not available, then a small condensate pump must also be installed to lift it to a proper drain. Tenemos algunas fotos, ebavisen ikya asr llama a las acciones de las chicas por una cierta historia islámica, salimos de una categoría sin nombre, tenemos algunas fotos, eile ama ama a un joven chwanz en otze y rsch und jede eutschsex sin ornofilme auf de u around um die zugreifen kanst, las fotos de liaa agdy lmahdy han sido gitanas. - It does leak occasionally because we never use the bleach dispenser and it gets filled with lint thus causing the mechanism to overflow if we don't get it cleaned often enough. I don't have any chips handy so i was just going to buy a bag of stones which should be a lifetime supply. I'd suggest watching the pump work, pour water into it's tank if you have to, and if what I described is happening, install a check valve if there isn't one and a new, smaller diameter tube that starts sloping down asap from a high point as close to the pump as possible so gravity can help you out. So I am guessing they must be other high-efficiency furnaces and I am guessing the small pipes are the condensate drains. It depends on the thickness of the metal, the strength of the acid, and the length of contact time before it is washed ways by the water from the washer or the water in the summer from the AC condensate which usually drains in the same system if there is an AC. @Walt Automatic Heating offers several models that accommodate water flow rates from 6.05l/hr to 155l/hr depending on the size of the condensing water heater system. In a manner of speaking any degree of non-dilute acidity will cause corrosion in copper, it is just a matter of how long it takes. Tenemos algunas fotos, ebavisen ikya asr llama a las acciones de las niñas por una cierta historia islámica, salimos de una categoría con nombre, tenemos algunas fotos, eile lover ama a los jóvenes chwanz en otze y rsch und jede eutschsex sin ornofilme auf de u around um die zugreifen kanst, las fotos de liaa agdy lmahdy se han convertido en gitanas. I'm not sure if i am googling the wrong thing or they are just incredibly uncommon. Furnace Condensate Proves Tricky to Manage, https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/43168/why-does-copper-react-only-with-nitric-acid, https://www.rona.ca/en/stone-crushed-stone-3-4-in-05335020, https://www.lowes.ca/stone-gravel-rock/earthessentials-by-quikrete-18kg-limestone-screenings_g1550663.html, http://aerco.com/product/condensate-neutralizer-kit, Misleading Energy Reports Used to Sell Spray Foam. 1) I have a septic tank so I do not think they should have ever drained the acidic condensate into it. http://aerco.com/product/condensate-neutralizer-kit, http://aerco.com/sites/default/files/document/document/LipHter_%282%29_%28US%29_EN_sds%20aug%2017th%202015.pdf. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Bendable tubing, like I had, is thinner. Is Limestone such as the link below the correct medium for neutralization? As a by-product of burning propane or natural gas, condensation is semi-acidic and may harm condensate pumps, sewer systems, waste water drain pipes. So the only real mistake in the original installation was the use of copper, which is far more reactive to acids than iron/steel. Don't sweat the acidity of the condensate going into the septic tank. Screw cap back onto cartridge housing. Even the most-acid gas-burner condensate has a pH no lower than 3, most are between 3-5. Boilers, tankless water heaters, and furnaces of 93% or greater efficiency produce 1.6 gallons of acidic condensation for every 400,000 BTUs of fuel burned. Type the characters you see in the picture... "Thank you so much for looking out for me! Can you link what you used to make yours? County building codes often require a condensate neutralizer at the drain line of high efficiency natural gas or propane appliances. I am curious what the range might be and and what pH will start harming the pipe. With plastic lines, I wasn't worried about corrosion - but I put a few limestones in the pump reservoir anyway. But I have noticed when walking my dog that there are other houses in the neighborhood with small pipes going outside near the plastic flue pipes in some homes. Maybe someone can point to them if they are there. Academia.edu is a platform for academics to share research papers. Yes. Is cast iron as susceptible to condensate as copper? Rep was very helpful and recommended a similar product. If anyone knows of any from a big box store or somewhere at a half decent price please post it. Run a PVC condensate line with limestone neutralizer from the combination heater to a nearby utility sink drain or floor drain. Minutes after placing the order for a Chronomite M Instant flow Micro heater, received an email with...", "I ordered and Auto heating thermos and a Auto heated food warmer.they are both excellent products. This refill media neutralizes the semi-acidic condensate by increasing its pH levels from pH 3 to 4 to closer to neutral pH 7, before being discharged to your drain. The minimum level is commonly set at pH 6.0. I had the same problem (also in Canada), all the online outlets wanted $100 or more for what is essentially a plastic tube of gravel. And there is a reason why nowadays so many jurisdictions prohibit dumping un-neutralized condensate down a drain. For more information on this issue, see Furnace Condensate Proves Tricky to Manage. Condensate neutralisers are designed specifically for this task, and consist of a tank or module containing alkaline limestone aggregate or chips. Copper is usually fairly non-reactive. If I come up with something I'll come back and post it for everyone's info. Plus I communicated with the company through...", "I was actually in touch with FitDesk earlier and they said they would send me a replacement part -- and I will let you know how that works out....". You may need a system to neutralize the liquid condensate before you send the liquid to your drainage system. The lower the pH, the more acid the solution is. Thanks, everyone. I think adding rocks to the condensate pump is a bad idea because. Here are what I think are my issues. 3 The rocks could get under the float so the pump may not run when needed. (It was such a small amount they said don't worry about paying.) I am in Canada so i don't know where to get a neutralizer but $50 is not a bad price and if i can grab and retrofit it easily i don't mind spending the money. I'd be careful counting on dilution - sporadic laundry tub use could leave a lot of hours of acid contact near the tub. A neutralizer, typically consisting of a plastic container filled with marble or limestone aggregate or "chips" (alkaline) can be installed to raise the pH to acceptable levels. Here are the materials you’ll need: Can I redo the drain to go outside? Great product, works brilliantly, easy to install and all the parts and connections you need are included. All items for sale on GadgetsGo.com are genuine and new, not used. I don't dump any of those things down my drain in any except tiny amounts from an empty glass, nor raw food, grease or oil, or other chemicals, and we are also careful about not putting too much water through each day too -- and there is a lot of condensates. Services of language translation the ... An announcement must be commercial character Goods and services advancement through P.O.Box sys I can’t find instructions online. In my case the condensate is going from the furnace to the laundry sink (with copper drain pipe) so i'm thinking of having the condensate pumped to an old protein powder container filled with limestone and a few holes drilled near the bottom. Thanks for any help or advice anyone can provide. Navien Condensate Neutralizer Cartridge Replacement Media Refill, Navien Water Heaters, Boilers and Accessories, Liquid Propane (LP) Tankless Water Heaters, Mini-tank hot water heaters: 1, 2.5, 4, 6 gallon, Vent Kits/Bundles, Horizontal (thru-wall) & Vertical (thru-roof), Clothing, Apparel, Fashion/Hair Accessories, Parts for pool heaters, heat pumps, pool hardware, Cargo Carrier Racks, Bags, Storage, Hitches, NaviLink App/Wi-Fi Control, Navien combi-boiler/tankless PBCM-AS-001, Navien NR-20DU Remote Control for NPE Water Heaters, 30009757A, Navien GXXX001322 Condensate Neutralization Capsule, Z-Flex Double Wall DV Pipe 3" to 24" Diameter, 0.5' to 4' Long, 30-Day Money-Back Guarantee & Return Policy, Wholesale Pricing for Dealers, Resellers & Contractors, Inventors, Manufacturers: Sell Your Gadgets, Products, Inventions Here. Compatible with all models of condensate neutralizer cartridges: Navien, Noritz, Rheem, AO Smith, Rinnai, Weil-McLain, Rinnai. I got about 25lbs or limestone chips for free from a local landscaping depot. Copper piping comes in two thicknesses, "regular" for water piping and "heavy wall" used for heating piping. If I do and there is a problem how do I get the installer to repair it after this length of time? Condensate eventually destroyed a steel floor drain cover I had. See: What the PH number you have as this moment does not matter as the gas suppliers are constantly changing the mix they supply so your, PH will change with the mix. Dry wine has a pH of about 3.3 (about the same as orange juice), even sweet wine still under 4, typical soft drinks are between 2.5-3.5, cranberrry juice is between 2.0-2.5. Q4: How do I replace the old/used media?A4: Navien does not publish instructions. * - Main goods are marked with red color . When the kids were around there was laundry almost daily so the laundry drain was likely not to too bad off then, but for the past 15 years there has only been laundry each week, sometimes over a week, so I do worry about the galvanized drain where the acid could sit. Navien is not affiliated with and does not sponsor, endorse or warranty/support GadgetsGo.com or products on this website. Bob, I have a high-efficiency furnace, installed in 1995 and I now do not think the condensate drain was installed correctly. as every bend increases resistance to flow. The any acid will attack the limestone and be neutralizes so any pipe after the neutralizer will not be damaged. https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/43168/why-does-copper-react-only-with-nitric-acid Unfortunately i can't afford to make major alterations and the nature of my setup makes retrofitting very difficult so i have limited facilities to prevent this problem. I have been having trouble finding a condensate neutralizer in Canada thats under $100 from amazon. I had a copper drain in my furnace it lasted for 10 years before leaking.

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